Hi Baker,

Absolutely!! I agree with you 100%. I'm finding more and more around here
(Central MA) that this is how series are being done--just one logbook in the
last box. There are lots of them around here. The first series we planted
had 4 boxes, with logbooks in all 4 boxes. After finding a few series that
had logbooks in each box I realized that it was actually kinda annoying, so
I pulled the middle two logbooks out of the boxes. We now have one logbook
in the first and last box. That's kinda nice if the finder can't locate the
final box. That happened to me once...with a Merry Pranksters box...but they
were kind enough to give me enough of a hint that I found it the next time
out. I was SO BUMMED not to find the last box that first time, b/c I had
lots of comments I wanted to make (it is a cool series; Jigsaw Puzzle).
However, despite my frustration that day, I still believe strongly that
logbooks don't need to be in every box. Even as a planter, when I went back
to that series I found that I had four logbooks with all the same stamps in
them...in the same order. I really only need one.

So...I say GO FOR IT!!

~zess~

On 8/5/07, Baker wrote:
>
> I have been finding some interesting letterbox series plants, where
> the letterboxes lead you down a path and are planted at stratigic
> locactions. It is a nice way to make a long hike more interesting and
> fun for the boxer. One thing though that I find gets old is signing
> the logbook at each box. Geocachers use muti caches in the same way,
> but put the log book at the final cache.
>
> I have been thinking about taking two boxes, adding two more and make
> a nice series out of them that would take a longer hike and make it a
> little more fun, especally those who have childern. However, I was
> thinking of planting smaller boxes, with clues and a stamp, but no
> logbook, saving the logbook for the last box. For some reason that
> makes more sense to me. I remember finding a series that have 13
> beatiful stamps, but they were spaced about 400 feet aprat (or less)
> and by the time I hit the last box I just stamped it, no comment.
>
> How do you guys feel about leaving the logbook for the last in a
> sseries as long as a stamp was included with each clue box.
>
> I am cuious about this and if you have run into something like that.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Baker
> http://bakersoutdoors.blogspot.com/
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There are a couple of local (SE PA) boxers who do that. Works for me. I did put logs in each of my Into the Woods boxes though, partly because I enjoyed creating a different type of log for each box. But they're my magnum opus =)

Sheba

Baker wrote:
I have been finding some interesting letterbox series plants, where
the letterboxes lead you down a path and are planted at stratigic
locactions. It is a nice way to make a long hike more interesting and
fun for the boxer. One thing though that I find gets old is signing
the logbook at each box. Geocachers use muti caches in the same way,
but put the log book at the final cache.

I have been thinking about taking two boxes, adding two more and make
a nice series out of them that would take a longer hike and make it a
little more fun, especally those who have childern. However, I was
thinking of planting smaller boxes, with clues and a stamp, but no
logbook, saving the logbook for the last box. For some reason that
makes more sense to me. I remember finding a series that have 13
beatiful stamps, but they were spaced about 400 feet aprat (or less)
and by the time I hit the last box I just stamped it, no comment.

How do you guys feel about leaving the logbook for the last in a
sseries as long as a stamp was included with each clue box.

I am cuious about this and if you have run into something like that.

Thanks,

Baker
http://bakersoutdoors.blogspot.com/



---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Baker wrote:
> I have been finding some interesting letterbox series plants, where
> the letterboxes lead you down a path and are planted at stratigic
> locactions. It is a nice way to make a long hike more interesting and
> fun for the boxer. One thing though that I find gets old is signing
> the logbook at each box. Geocachers use muti caches in the same way,
> but put the log book at the final cache.
>
> I have been thinking about taking two boxes, adding two more and make
> a nice series out of them that would take a longer hike and make it a
> little more fun, especally those who have childern. However, I was
> thinking of planting smaller boxes, with clues and a stamp, but no
> logbook, saving the logbook for the last box. For some reason that
> makes more sense to me. I remember finding a series that have 13
> beatiful stamps, but they were spaced about 400 feet aprat (or less)
> and by the time I hit the last box I just stamped it, no comment.
>
> How do you guys feel about leaving the logbook for the last in a
> sseries as long as a stamp was included with each clue box.
>
> I am cuious about this and if you have run into something like that.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Baker
>


I have a series of 14 boxes with a logbook in just the last box, if you
ever get that far ;-)

it makes things much easier for the folks finding them, and I really see
no point in having a logbook in each box, just a waste of time and energy.

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

I'm in shape; round is a shape.

I love the idea. Stamping into every box in a series
is tedious and time consuming. I prefer to have 2
logbooks in a series, one in the first and one in the
last ( and maybe one in the middle depending on how
many boxes are in the series ). I have a series of 9
that is in the final stages of preparation and I wll
be doing 3 logbooks. As far as comments go it gets
redundant writing meaningless blabber just to write
something. I'd rather write a nice paragraph in the
final logbook about everything I saw and went through
to get there. It also is nicer for the placer when
it's time to read what others have said about your
series.


Gooble Gobble





____________________________________________________________________________________
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Yup, seems like a common thing. I have found many series with only one
logbook. I think the idea of having two is better though in case you don't
find one of them, or in case the person gives up partway though, then you
don't have their stamp at all. So, first and last seems to work well.

RIFamily
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.11.2/931 - Release Date: 8/1/2007
4:53 PM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

< sseries as long as a stamp was included with each clue box.>>

I've encountered this a couple times already -- as long as I know this is how it is, it's fine with me! It does give one motivation to finish the series. Recently I did "One Fish, Two Fish, Red Fish, Blue Fish," and I probably would have gone home after the 3rd box, except that I wanted to stamp the logbook!!

The only drawback is that it means as the placer, you'll only have a record of people who were able to do the whole series/find the last box. There is a series of 10 quilt squares nearby, and I went boxing with my mom -- we had to quit after 5, because her knees are bad. I will go back soon though!

Rachel



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think most every other response is dead on...we do have a series of 7 that have a log in each box thinking that that way we'd know right away as we checked who could find what...we've been seriously considering removing some of those. But definitely have a first and last. We did a series of 10 and couldn't find the last box which was the only one that had a log in it...It took us a year to get back and finally find it and stamp in(we had to take the trip again)...that's sad for us and the placer.


To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.comFrom: knightbaker63@yahoo.comDate: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 02:14:10 +0000Subject: [LbNA] Thoughts about Letterbox series




I have been finding some interesting letterbox series plants, where the letterboxes lead you down a path and are planted at stratigic locactions. It is a nice way to make a long hike more interesting and fun for the boxer. One thing though that I find gets old is signing the logbook at each box. Geocachers use muti caches in the same way, but put the log book at the final cache. I have been thinking about taking two boxes, adding two more and make a nice series out of them that would take a longer hike and make it a little more fun, especally those who have childern. However, I was thinking of planting smaller boxes, with clues and a stamp, but no logbook, saving the logbook for the last box. For some reason that makes more sense to me. I remember finding a series that have 13 beatiful stamps, but they were spaced about 400 feet aprat (or less) and by the time I hit the last box I just stamped it, no comment.How do you guys feel about leaving the logbook for the last in a sseries as long as a stamp was included with each clue box.I am cuious about this and if you have run into something like that. Thanks,Bakerhttp://bakersoutdoors.blogspot.com/


_________________________________________________________________
Learn. Laugh. Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Baker" wrote:
>
> I have been finding some interesting letterbox series plants, where
> the letterboxes lead you down a path and are planted at stratigic
> locactions. It is a nice way to make a long hike more interesting and
> fun for the boxer. One thing though that I find gets old is signing
> the logbook at each box. Geocachers use muti caches in the same way,
> but put the log book at the final cache.


So would it be acceptable also then if the planter only put a stamp in
the final box? I'm sure carving all those stamps is tedious to some
people.

While I know that the practice of putting the logbook only in the last
box is becoming more common to "save time" and make it "less
bothersome" for the finder to have to stamp into each box along the
way, I can't help thinking that this is simply another effort to
short-shift the letterboxing experience. After all, finding a
letterbox, even if it is just one in a series, involves the stamping
process -- and it is a two-way process which includes stamping the box
stamp into your log and stamping your stamp into the box log. This is
a fundamental part of letterboxing.

If you are only interested in finding boxes out in the woods without
the stamping process, perhaps the geocaching philosophy better fits
your goals?

Just my old-school perspective, which seems to be in the minority
these days.

SpringChick

I think that it is up to you, me personally I like carving stamps and
making then part of the box. I find that I enjoy the challenge of
making the stamp fit the locaction. I want the finders to be able to
collect a stamp image after each find.

I find that by the end of a long series that I am just stamping the
logbook (if there are logbook in each that is), and I have run out of
things to say. I would much rather, as some others have posted above,
find a bunch of boxes and then stamp in the logbook at the final,
where I can leave a nice meaningful comment on the series.

I also think too that it depends on the series. I have found a few
series that really could be separate letterboxes that are loosely
tied together. These I could see having a logbook in each. But I have
found others that are interdependant of each other and close together
where signing each book gets to be a bother.

The one that I a building is both educactional and interdependant of
one and other, where the boxes will have the clues to the next box. I
just want to make sure that not only are the finders locating their
next clue to the final, but that there is a rewarded for finding that
box with a stamp. Especailly for our younger boxers.

BTW, I again, personally don't have a problem finding clue boxes
without a stamp and logbook, but I will hike 10 miles round trip for
a single box.

Just my thughts, thank you for yours.

Baker
http://bakersoutdoors.blogspot.com/


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "SpringChick"
wrote:
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Baker"
wrote:
> >
> > I have been finding some interesting letterbox series plants,
where
> > the letterboxes lead you down a path and are planted at stratigic
> > locactions. It is a nice way to make a long hike more interesting
and
> > fun for the boxer. One thing though that I find gets old is
signing
> > the logbook at each box. Geocachers use muti caches in the same
way,
> > but put the log book at the final cache.
>
>
> So would it be acceptable also then if the planter only put a stamp
in
> the final box? I'm sure carving all those stamps is tedious to some
> people.
>
> While I know that the practice of putting the logbook only in the
last
> box is becoming more common to "save time" and make it "less
> bothersome" for the finder to have to stamp into each box along the
> way, I can't help thinking that this is simply another effort to
> short-shift the letterboxing experience. After all, finding a
> letterbox, even if it is just one in a series, involves the stamping
> process -- and it is a two-way process which includes stamping the
box
> stamp into your log and stamping your stamp into the box log. This
is
> a fundamental part of letterboxing.
>
> If you are only interested in finding boxes out in the woods without
> the stamping process, perhaps the geocaching philosophy better fits
> your goals?
>
> Just my old-school perspective, which seems to be in the minority
> these days.
>
> SpringChick
>

Hey, now that was perfect timing. :-)

I was just sitting down to reply and you probably said it in 1/10th the
number of words that I would have used anyway.

Ditto from me. This isn't geocaching.

I will add that, even tho there might be a logbook in each box, that doesn't
mean I necessarily write out a long extended comment in each box. Unless
there's a reason to for a specific box. But if I want to comment about the
series, I put the comment in the last box. In my neck of the woods, few
boxers write comments in the first place, so they can't exactly complain
about having to write comments for a series of boxes when they don't write
comments for even one box.

But stamps? Logbooks? That's what letterboxing is. A box has a stamp. A
box has a logbook. A placer creates both, a finder uses both. To me, those
two things are the minimum requirements.

~~ Mosey ~~



-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of SpringChick
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 6:14 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Thoughts about Letterbox series


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Baker" wrote:
>
> I have been finding some interesting letterbox series plants, where
> the letterboxes lead you down a path and are planted at stratigic
> locactions. It is a nice way to make a long hike more interesting and
> fun for the boxer. One thing though that I find gets old is signing
> the logbook at each box. Geocachers use muti caches in the same way,
> but put the log book at the final cache.


So would it be acceptable also then if the planter only put a stamp in
the final box? I'm sure carving all those stamps is tedious to some
people.

While I know that the practice of putting the logbook only in the last
box is becoming more common to "save time" and make it "less
bothersome" for the finder to have to stamp into each box along the
way, I can't help thinking that this is simply another effort to
short-shift the letterboxing experience. After all, finding a
letterbox, even if it is just one in a series, involves the stamping
process -- and it is a two-way process which includes stamping the box
stamp into your log and stamping your stamp into the box log. This is
a fundamental part of letterboxing.

If you are only interested in finding boxes out in the woods without
the stamping process, perhaps the geocaching philosophy better fits
your goals?

Just my old-school perspective, which seems to be in the minority
these days.

SpringChick

I take a non-letterboxer on most hunts. I like stamping into each
letterbox. What we are starting to find is too many boxes in a series,
some with logbooks, some without. From a non-letterboxer's perspective,
it was stated "this hike really didn't need this many boxes." So I guess
I have to ask myself, "if each box in a series does not warrant a logbook,
is it necessary to plant each one?"

I have a series of 4 and each letterbox has its one logbook. Quite often
letterboxers will find 1, 2 or 3 of the four, and they aren't always the
same 1, 2 or 3. I get many comments that this series is the first
letterboxing experience they've had. I wouldn't dream of changing the way
I create them.

Next week marks 3 Years for this series in the wild! I have the original
logbooks, and it's time to check on Book 2 for each of them. I hope they
haven't been muggled.

~speedsquare



____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/

I understand your perspective - "stamping in" is a 2 part process. The only problem I have with it is that my husband isn't into letterboxing and loves to hike. If there is a logbook in every box, it gets very boring for him so I hurry through the process so we can get moving. It goes much smoother if there is 1 logbook at the end. All my series have 1 book - however - my bonuses have a separate logbook so I can see who was paying attention.

Enjoy!
donutz716

SpringChick wrote:
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com,
>
>

If you are only interested in finding boxes out in the woods without
the stamping process, perhaps the geocaching philosophy better fits
your goals?

Just my old-school perspective, which seems to be in the minority
these days.

SpringChick






---------------------------------
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think that is the fallacy that causes people to dislike finding a logbook in every box of the series. Somehow we have bought in to this myth that we must always write a nice note to the planter. We end up spending 20 minutes sitting there at each one trying to think of a different way to say "I liked your box." In no way is this a requirement. As a matter of fact there is not even a requirement that you sign your name--your stamp speaks for you.

Sheba

Baker wrote:
I find that by the end of a long series that I am just stamping the
logbook (if there are logbook in each that is), and I have run out of
things to say. I would much rather, as some others have posted above,
find a bunch of boxes and then stamp in the logbook at the final,
where I can leave a nice meaningful comment on the series.


---------------------------------
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 08:23 AM 8/6/2007, you wrote:
>f there is a logbook in every box, it gets very boring for him so I
>hurry through the process so we can get moving. It goes much
>smoother if there is 1 logbook at the end

I agree with SpringChick & Mosey that there should be a book in each
box. If you only have one book and that box goes missing or the
finder can't find it, you don't have their stamp. As a finder, if
logging into each book is a PITA for you, no one says you HAVE to log
into every box. You could always wait until the last box and stamp
in there only, and/or make your comments there only. Of course, if
you don't find the last box, you have to back track to another box to
leave your stamp/comments.

Bali
http://bnlbaligrl.blogspot.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

So true, but I feel that someone has taken the time to create a treasure to be found and my conscience says I need to acknowledge and thank the person for taking the time to entertain me. That's just me and I don't expect that anyone else has to do the same.

As a sidebar, while looking at all the logbooks that I've found - Pete and Wanda always log in a few words of kindness in all the boxes that they find. I admire anyone who takes the time to do so.

Enjoy!
donutz716

Suzanne Coe wrote:
I think that is the fallacy that causes people to dislike finding a logbook in every box of the series. Somehow we have bought in to this myth that we must always write a nice note to the planter. We end up spending 20 minutes sitting there at each one trying to think of a different way to say "I liked your box." In no way is this a requirement. As a matter of fact there is not even a requirement that you sign your name--your stamp speaks for you.

Sheba

Baker wrote:
I find that by the end of a long series that I am just stamping the
logbook (if there are logbook in each that is), and I have run out of
things to say. I would much rather, as some others have posted above,
find a bunch of boxes and then stamp in the logbook at the final,
where I can leave a nice meaningful comment on the series.

---------------------------------
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have a series planned for a local park that is exactly what you have outlined; a series of mini/micro boxes containing only stamps with the logbook in the very last one.?

The Pakrat
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Couldn't this problem be solved if you just didn't sign every log even if it
is there? If you are doing a series and would prefer there not be a log in
each box just don't stamp the log until you get to the end. You can write in
that log that you found all the boxes and chose to only sign the last log.
That gives the ones who want a log in each box the chance to stamp in at
each and the ones who don't can just wait until the end.

Tammy
Rock Hoppin' Mama

Baker wrote:

> How do you guys feel about leaving the logbook for the last in a
> sseries as long as a stamp was included with each clue box.

My own personal feeling: If the clues for each box are separate so
that you could conceivably DNF on some of them but find the others
OK, then there should be a log book in each box. However, if each
box contains the clues to find the NEXT box, so if you DNF on one
then you can't find any more, then a log book in the last box only
makes sense. Your stamp in the one log book indicates you
successfully found ALL of the boxes.

-- Kirbert

Same here. I like to acknowledge and encourage a placer's efforts.

I really appreciate a note in the letterboxes that I hide. It inspires me to keep hiding and maintaining letterboxes.

Lone R

donutz716 wrote: So true, but I feel that someone has taken the time to create a treasure to be found and my conscience says I need to acknowledge and thank the person for taking the time to entertain me. That's just me and I don't expect that anyone else has to do the same.

As a sidebar, while looking at all the logbooks that I've found - Pete and Wanda always log in a few words of kindness in all the boxes that they find. I admire anyone who takes the time to do so.

Enjoy!
donutz716

Suzanne Coe wrote:
I think that is the fallacy that causes people to dislike finding a logbook in every box of the series. Somehow we have bought in to this myth that we must always write a nice note to the planter. We end up spending 20 minutes sitting there at each one trying to think of a different way to say "I liked your box." In no way is this a requirement. As a matter of fact there is not even a requirement that you sign your name--your stamp speaks for you.

Sheba

Baker wrote:
I find that by the end of a long series that I am just stamping the
logbook (if there are logbook in each that is), and I have run out of
things to say. I would much rather, as some others have posted above,
find a bunch of boxes and then stamp in the logbook at the final,
where I can leave a nice meaningful comment on the series.

---------------------------------
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---------------------------------
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am certainly leaning toward putting only one logbook
at the end of a series, myself. I have one series
like that, and another one planned. That way I can
use some micro containers just for stamps and not do
the squished up logs in them. But I have other series
of two boxes that have their own logs.

I think for me what gets tedious is when there is a
multiple series each with a logbook and you are only
hiking, say, five minutes or less between them. If
they would be spaced further out, I wouldn't mind the
chance to sit! My personal rule is that boxes should
be spaced farther apart than the time it takes to stop
and stamp in.

But peace to all who think otherwise! Plant away!!!

Mommo




--- pakrat98@aol.com wrote:

> I have a series planned for a local park that is
> exactly what you have outlined; a series of
> mini/micro boxes containing only stamps with the
> logbook in the very last one.?
>
> The Pakrat
>
________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out
> more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>



____________________________________________________________________________________
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
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I'm combining two of your posts into one here.........but.......

If your husband is in a hurry to get back to the hike, and you're taking the
time to write in the logbook as a thank you to the placer, consider skipping
the writing-a-note-in-the-logbook part of it and, once you get home, sit
down at the computer and hit the contact-the-placer button. That way the
time you spend stamping into all those logbooks will be offset by the time
you WON'T be spending writing out the thank yous in the field.

That way it also alerts the placer, without them needing to check on the
box, that the box was either safe and sound or perhaps not safe and not
sound and needs attention.

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of donutz716
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 7:37 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Thoughts about Letterbox series


So true, but I feel that someone has taken the time to create a treasure to
be found and my conscience says I need to acknowledge and thank the person
for taking the time to entertain me. That's just me and I don't expect that
anyone else has to do the same.

As a sidebar, while looking at all the logbooks that I've found - Pete and
Wanda always log in a few words of kindness in all the boxes that they find.
I admire anyone who takes the time to do so.

Enjoy!
donutz716

Suzanne Coe wrote:
I think that is the fallacy that causes people to dislike finding
a logbook in every box of the series. Somehow we have bought in to this myth
that we must always write a nice note to the planter. We end up spending 20
minutes sitting there at each one trying to think of a different way to say
"I liked your box." In no way is this a requirement. As a matter of fact
there is not even a requirement that you sign your name--your stamp speaks
for you.

Sheba

Baker wrote:
I find that by the end of a long series that I am just stamping the
logbook (if there are logbook in each that is), and I have run out of
things to say. I would much rather, as some others have posted above,
find a bunch of boxes and then stamp in the logbook at the final,
where I can leave a nice meaningful comment on the series.

I agree in leaving one perhaps two journals in a series. I have been
known not to sign in each journal. However one series I did had one
journal and that one box was destroyed by someone or something so no
journal at all. Just a thought. I do love the longer series so I
can do a longer day hike.
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Baker"
wrote:
>
> I have been finding some interesting letterbox series plants, where
> the letterboxes lead you down a path and are planted at stratigic
> locactions. It is a nice way to make a long hike more interesting
and
> fun for the boxer. One thing though that I find gets old is signing
> the logbook at each box. Geocachers use muti caches in the same
way,
> but put the log book at the final cache.
>
> I have been thinking about taking two boxes, adding two more and
make
> a nice series out of them that would take a longer hike and make it
a
> little more fun, especally those who have childern. However, I was
> thinking of planting smaller boxes, with clues and a stamp, but no
> logbook, saving the logbook for the last box. For some reason that
> makes more sense to me. I remember finding a series that have 13
> beatiful stamps, but they were spaced about 400 feet aprat (or
less)
> and by the time I hit the last box I just stamped it, no comment.
>
> How do you guys feel about leaving the logbook for the last in a
> sseries as long as a stamp was included with each clue box.
>
> I am cuious about this and if you have run into something like
that.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Baker
> http://bakersoutdoors.blogspot.com/
>

I always contact the placer no matter what to let them know the condition of their box and to thank them for planting. It's not always the writing that takes time. Here are the additional tasks involved at additional boxes in a series if they each have a logbook:

3) taking their logbook out of the baggies
4) opening their logbook to the next page
5) getting out your stamp and ink
6) stamping into their logbook
7) putting your stamp and ink away
8) putting their logbook back in the double baggie

I know it doesn't seem like much, but consider that the person has a 5 box series (or more) - these steps will be done an additional 4 times and my husband, is standing there waiting. And as someone else mentioned, if the boxes are very close together, it doesn't make for a pleasant experience for a non boxer especially.

Enjoy!
donutz716

xxxxxxxx wrote:
I'm combining two of your posts into one here.........but.......

If your husband is in a hurry to get back to the hike, and you're taking the
time to write in the logbook as a thank you to the placer, consider skipping
the writing-a-note-in-the-logbook part of it and, once you get home, sit
down at the computer and hit the contact-the-placer button. That way the
time you spend stamping into all those logbooks will be offset by the time
you WON'T be spending writing out the thank yous in the field.

That way it also alerts the placer, without them needing to check on the
box, that the box was either safe and sound or perhaps not safe and not
sound and needs attention.

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of donutz716
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 7:37 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Thoughts about Letterbox series

So true, but I feel that someone has taken the time to create a treasure to
be found and my conscience says I need to acknowledge and thank the person
for taking the time to entertain me. That's just me and I don't expect that
anyone else has to do the same.

As a sidebar, while looking at all the logbooks that I've found - Pete and
Wanda always log in a few words of kindness in all the boxes that they find.
I admire anyone who takes the time to do so.

Enjoy!
donutz716

Suzanne Coe wrote:
I think that is the fallacy that causes people to dislike finding
a logbook in every box of the series. Somehow we have bought in to this myth
that we must always write a nice note to the planter. We end up spending 20
minutes sitting there at each one trying to think of a different way to say
"I liked your box." In no way is this a requirement. As a matter of fact
there is not even a requirement that you sign your name--your stamp speaks
for you.

Sheba

Baker wrote:
I find that by the end of a long series that I am just stamping the
logbook (if there are logbook in each that is), and I have run out of
things to say. I would much rather, as some others have posted above,
find a bunch of boxes and then stamp in the logbook at the final,
where I can leave a nice meaningful comment on the series.






---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "xxxxxxxx"
wrote:
> consider skipping the writing-a-note-in-the-logbook part of it and,
once you get home, sit down at the computer and hit the contact-the-
placer button. That way the time you spend stamping into all those
logbooks will be offset by the time you WON'T be spending writing out
the thank yous in the field.

I'm glad Mosey made this suggestion; it's a good one. Another reason
to do this is if you have a comment for the placer that really should
be between the two of you, and not for the boxing public to read in
the log.

This weekend I found five boxes just set out by a new placer. Of the
five, one of them was in a cool whip tub with an ill-fitting lid
(just wouldn't snap shut). Another was in a thin container placed
under large and heavy objects, and would soon crack under their
weight. A third was located by the side of an elementary school.

Obviously this new person just didn't know about water damage, broken
containers and how school officials would most likely react to
strangers poking around the property when school's in session. I felt
it was more polite and discreet to mention these kinds of things not
in the logbook but in an email to the placer, and to offer my
assistance should they need it.

wood thrush

You're the one who said that it was the amount of time spent writing out the
comments that took the time.

I'm sorry, but I guess I don't see your 8 steps as taking all that much
time, even if it does involve a 5 box series -- and how often do you really
go out on a 5 box series anyway -- that he can't find something else to do,
like birdwatching or checking out the local wildflowers, for the 2 or 3
minutes it takes you to do each box.

Time yourself sometime. Without writing comments, those 8 steps just don't
take that all that long. Or maybe he's just an incredibly impatient guy who
needs to consider adding a bit of yoga, or a bit of tai chi, or a bit of
meditation to his life if that amount of time makes for such an unpleasant
experience for him? He's not 5 years old, is he? Or is he?

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of donutz716
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:33 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: Thoughts about Letterbox series


I always contact the placer no matter what to let them know the condition of
their box and to thank them for planting. It's not always the writing that
takes time. Here are the additional tasks involved at additional boxes in a
series if they each have a logbook:

3) taking their logbook out of the baggies
4) opening their logbook to the next page
5) getting out your stamp and ink
6) stamping into their logbook
7) putting your stamp and ink away
8) putting their logbook back in the double baggie

I know it doesn't seem like much, but consider that the person has a 5 box
series (or more) - these steps will be done an additional 4 times and my
husband, is standing there waiting. And as someone else mentioned, if the
boxes are very close together, it doesn't make for a pleasant experience for
a non boxer especially.

Enjoy!
donutz716

I realized it wasn't you that mentioned the amount of time spent writing.

But I stand by my post. It just doesn't take all that long to stamp in if a
person waits to write comments until the last box. To me, it's just yet
another way to keep moving the hobby down to the lowest common denominator.

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of donutz716
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:33 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: Thoughts about Letterbox series


I always contact the placer no matter what to let them know the condition of
their box and to thank them for planting. It's not always the writing that
takes time. Here are the additional tasks involved at additional boxes in a
series if they each have a logbook:

3) taking their logbook out of the baggies
4) opening their logbook to the next page
5) getting out your stamp and ink
6) stamping into their logbook
7) putting your stamp and ink away
8) putting their logbook back in the double baggie

I know it doesn't seem like much, but consider that the person has a 5 box
series (or more) - these steps will be done an additional 4 times and my
husband, is standing there waiting. And as someone else mentioned, if the
boxes are very close together, it doesn't make for a pleasant experience for
a non boxer especially.

Enjoy!
donutz716

Well the only experience I have with a letterbox seris in NH is the first time we went it was too icy so we only were able to get the first one.? The second time it rained any we had the baby so were got two more. This is a seven part series.? I hope we be up to NH again in September and maybe we will get a chance to finish the series.? So I like to have stamps and log books in each box there.?

?On the other hand, ?it is a pain to stamp each log book in each box in a series.? We have done several boxes in a series in Ct. when that was the case. There? were? a few letterboxers in our family then

STAR:W+S=DRR
-----Original Message-----
From: pakrat98@aol.com
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 8:42 am
Subject: [LbNA] Re:Thoughts about Letterbox series






I have a series planned for a local park that is exactly what you have outlined; a series of mini/micro boxes containing only stamps with the logbook in the very last one.?

The Pakrat
__________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I too prefer a log book in every box......I love the process of
stamping in. It's part of the "art" of letterboxing.




--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "SpringChick"
wrote:
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Baker"
wrote:
> >
> > I have been finding some interesting letterbox series plants,
where
> > the letterboxes lead you down a path and are planted at stratigic
> > locactions. It is a nice way to make a long hike more interesting
and
> > fun for the boxer. One thing though that I find gets old is
signing
> > the logbook at each box. Geocachers use muti caches in the same
way,
> > but put the log book at the final cache.
>
>
> So would it be acceptable also then if the planter only put a stamp
in
> the final box? I'm sure carving all those stamps is tedious to some
> people.
>
> While I know that the practice of putting the logbook only in the
last
> box is becoming more common to "save time" and make it "less
> bothersome" for the finder to have to stamp into each box along the
> way, I can't help thinking that this is simply another effort to
> short-shift the letterboxing experience. After all, finding a
> letterbox, even if it is just one in a series, involves the stamping
> process -- and it is a two-way process which includes stamping the
box
> stamp into your log and stamping your stamp into the box log. This
is
> a fundamental part of letterboxing.
>
> If you are only interested in finding boxes out in the woods without
> the stamping process, perhaps the geocaching philosophy better fits
> your goals?
>
> Just my old-school perspective, which seems to be in the minority
> these days.
>
> SpringChick
>

Are you expecting that each box in the series would have a stamp from
the placer that you can stamp into your book? If no, what is the
purpose of the box? If yes, you do not feel an acknowledgement of
their effort would be appreciated?

You're suggesting that in order to ease your guilt about not leaving
a comment, you would prefer that the placer just not include a
logbook?

Deb

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, donutz716 wrote:
>
> So true, but I feel that someone has taken the time to create a
treasure to be found and my conscience says I need to acknowledge and
thank the person for taking the time to entertain me. That's just me
and I don't expect that anyone else has to do the same.
>
> As a sidebar, while looking at all the logbooks that I've found -
Pete and Wanda always log in a few words of kindness in all the boxes
that they find. I admire anyone who takes the time to do so.
>
> Enjoy!
> donutz716
>
> Suzanne Coe wrote:
> I think that is the fallacy that causes people to dislike
finding a logbook in every box of the series. Somehow we have bought
in to this myth that we must always write a nice note to the planter.
We end up spending 20 minutes sitting there at each one trying to
think of a different way to say "I liked your box." In no way is this
a requirement. As a matter of fact there is not even a requirement
that you sign your name--your stamp speaks for you.
>
> Sheba
>
> Baker wrote:
> I find that by the end of a long series that I am just stamping the
> logbook (if there are logbook in each that is), and I have run out
of
> things to say. I would much rather, as some others have posted
above,
> find a bunch of boxes and then stamp in the logbook at the final,
> where I can leave a nice meaningful comment on the series.
>
> ---------------------------------
> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with
Yahoo! FareChase.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your
story.
> Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Great suggestion! As a placer, I value both e-mail notes and logbook
notes, but certainly have easier access to e-mail notes.

SpringChick


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "xxxxxxxx"
wrote:
>
> I'm combining two of your posts into one here.........but.......
>
> If your husband is in a hurry to get back to the hike, and you're
taking the
> time to write in the logbook as a thank you to the placer, consider
skipping
> the writing-a-note-in-the-logbook part of it and, once you get
home, sit
> down at the computer and hit the contact-the-placer button. That
way the
> time you spend stamping into all those logbooks will be offset by
the time
> you WON'T be spending writing out the thank yous in the field.
>
> That way it also alerts the placer, without them needing to check
on the
> box, that the box was either safe and sound or perhaps not safe and
not
> sound and needs attention.
>
> ~~ Mosey ~~
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of donutz716
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 7:37 AM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Thoughts about Letterbox series
>
>
> So true, but I feel that someone has taken the time to create a
treasure to
> be found and my conscience says I need to acknowledge and thank the
person
> for taking the time to entertain me. That's just me and I don't
expect that
> anyone else has to do the same.
>
> As a sidebar, while looking at all the logbooks that I've found -
Pete and
> Wanda always log in a few words of kindness in all the boxes that
they find.
> I admire anyone who takes the time to do so.
>
> Enjoy!
> donutz716
>
> Suzanne Coe wrote:
> I think that is the fallacy that causes people to dislike
finding
> a logbook in every box of the series. Somehow we have bought in to
this myth
> that we must always write a nice note to the planter. We end up
spending 20
> minutes sitting there at each one trying to think of a different
way to say
> "I liked your box." In no way is this a requirement. As a matter of
fact
> there is not even a requirement that you sign your name--your stamp
speaks
> for you.
>
> Sheba
>
> Baker wrote:
> I find that by the end of a long series that I am just stamping the
> logbook (if there are logbook in each that is), and I have run out
of
> things to say. I would much rather, as some others have posted
above,
> find a bunch of boxes and then stamp in the logbook at the final,
> where I can leave a nice meaningful comment on the series.
>

ruhlette wrote:

> So I guess I have to ask myself, "if each box in a series
> does not warrant a logbook, is it necessary to plant each one?"

Hmmm. I haven't planted a series; now that I think about it, this is
probably a large reason why. I have been thinking about a series or
two, usually because there are two or more points of interest within
the same park or the like, but even in those cases I'm more likely to
create two separate letterboxes.

It's not the length of the hike. I've got a couple out there that
involve a hike of a couple of miles or more. I don't feel the need
to plant intermediate boxes just to keep the interest up or whatever.

One of the reasons I'd been thinking of planting a series is because
I really want to bring people to a very particular spot, but there's
nowhere there to plant a container large enough for a stamp and log
book. So my plan was to plant just a stamp with some instructions
for finding a second box, somewhere nearby where a larger container
can be hidden. I had that one pretty well worked out when I came up
with a way to hide a log book at the first site, so the series idea
went away.

-- Kirbert

Suzanne Coe wrote:

> Somehow we have bought in to this
> myth that we must always write a nice note to the planter. We end up
> spending 20 minutes sitting there at each one trying to think of a
> different way to say "I liked your box." In no way is this a
> requirement. As a matter of fact there is not even a requirement that
> you sign your name--your stamp speaks for you.

Well, that makes me feel a bit better. I rarely write anything in
the log book; I usually just stamp, and my sig stamp includes my
trailname. The only thing I write is the date.

If I have something to say to the planter, I say it in an e-mail to
the planter when I log the find. To my mind, writing in the log book
at the letterbox is not writing to the planter but rather to other
finders. Presumably other finders have just experienced the same
hunt that I have, so telling them how lovely it is is a waste of
time. What I usually write about is things that are interesting
about my particular experience that day, such as seeing some wildlife
or making some dumb mistake trying to find the box.

-- Kirbert

Yes, but this is how letterboxing is done.

As someone had suggested earlier, you can always just disregard the
logbook in the box if it is too botherstome for you to stamp the
placer's logbook in exchange for stamping their stamp into your
logbook.

SpringChick


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, donutz716 wrote:
>
> I always contact the placer no matter what to let them know the
condition of their box and to thank them for planting. It's not
always the writing that takes time. Here are the additional tasks
involved at additional boxes in a series if they each have a logbook:
>
> 3) taking their logbook out of the baggies
> 4) opening their logbook to the next page
> 5) getting out your stamp and ink
> 6) stamping into their logbook
> 7) putting your stamp and ink away
> 8) putting their logbook back in the double baggie
>
> I know it doesn't seem like much, but consider that the person
has a 5 box series (or more) - these steps will be done an additional
4 times and my husband, is standing there waiting. And as someone
else mentioned, if the boxes are very close together, it doesn't make
for a pleasant experience for a non boxer especially.
>
> Enjoy!
> donutz716
>
> xxxxxxxx wrote:
> I'm combining two of your posts into one
here.........but.......
>
> If your husband is in a hurry to get back to the hike, and you're
taking the
> time to write in the logbook as a thank you to the placer, consider
skipping
> the writing-a-note-in-the-logbook part of it and, once you get
home, sit
> down at the computer and hit the contact-the-placer button. That
way the
> time you spend stamping into all those logbooks will be offset by
the time
> you WON'T be spending writing out the thank yous in the field.
>
> That way it also alerts the placer, without them needing to check
on the
> box, that the box was either safe and sound or perhaps not safe and
not
> sound and needs attention.
>
> ~~ Mosey ~~
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of donutz716
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 7:37 AM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Thoughts about Letterbox series
>
> So true, but I feel that someone has taken the time to create a
treasure to
> be found and my conscience says I need to acknowledge and thank the
person
> for taking the time to entertain me. That's just me and I don't
expect that
> anyone else has to do the same.
>
> As a sidebar, while looking at all the logbooks that I've found -
Pete and
> Wanda always log in a few words of kindness in all the boxes that
they find.
> I admire anyone who takes the time to do so.
>
> Enjoy!
> donutz716
>
> Suzanne Coe wrote:
> I think that is the fallacy that causes people to dislike finding
> a logbook in every box of the series. Somehow we have bought in to
this myth
> that we must always write a nice note to the planter. We end up
spending 20
> minutes sitting there at each one trying to think of a different
way to say
> "I liked your box." In no way is this a requirement. As a matter of
fact
> there is not even a requirement that you sign your name--your stamp
speaks
> for you.
>
> Sheba
>
> Baker wrote:
> I find that by the end of a long series that I am just stamping the
> logbook (if there are logbook in each that is), and I have run out
of
> things to say. I would much rather, as some others have posted
above,
> find a bunch of boxes and then stamp in the logbook at the final,
> where I can leave a nice meaningful comment on the series.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s
user panel and lay it on us.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

SpringChick wrote:
> Yes, but this is how letterboxing is done.
>
> As someone had suggested earlier, you can always just disregard the
> logbook in the box if it is too botherstome for you to stamp the
> placer's logbook in exchange for stamping their stamp into your
> logbook.
>
> SpringChick
>
>


Is it?

I mean, as far as I am concerned, there are no rules. It maybe how it
is done for you, but it is not how it is done for everyone.

Personally, having placed series, I find it bothersome and costly to
have a logbook in each box. I see no point in it if you are going to
get the same stamps in each one. Why would I want 14 logbooks that are
all the same when one will do? Further, not having a logbook allows for
a smaller box and if the box gets wet it will not matter. While I make
the boxes as watertight as possible, stuff happens that is simply beyond
my control. Why make more work for myself?

As a finder, I do find it tedious to stamp in every box in a series.
The self satisfaction of knowing I was there is the only gratification I
really need.

Point is, letterboxing is supposed to be fun. When it gets to the point
that something is tedious or bothersome, it is no longer fun. The way I
look at it, if is something that has become an exercise and I can remove
that something, I do. I want people to enjoy finding the boxes. Clues
can be frustrating, a hike can be frustrating, but the process should
not be frustrating.

To each their own.

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

I'm in shape; round is a shape.

Y'know, I think American society should consider revising more than just the
sport of letterboxing while we're at it. All over, I see time wasting
practices that we could work on:

1. Baseball. A batter only gets 3 strikes, why should a pitcher get 4
balls for a walk? Lose that fourth ball and save time! Batter is out after
3 strikes, batter walks after 3 balls. And speaking of pitching, while
we're at it............why in tarnation do we need a pitcher and allll that
time they take on that silly mound? Haven't these guys ever heard of
T-Ball??? And while we're at it...........do we really have to take the
time to sing the National Anthem before every. single. game. ???

2. Football. Get rid of that stupid time wasting practice of trying to
kick that pig thru those two big posts. After all, the team gets all those
points for the touchdown anyway. Get rid of that point after and get on
with the game!

3. Horse racing. Allll those minutes wasted getting those big fat butts
into those skinny narrow shoots? And if a horse accidentally breaks, people
get to wait all over again?? Get rid of the gate. When they hit the track,
blow a whistle, and let 'em take off! And that crazy trumpet playing before
the race. Waste of time!

And writing -- why do authors spend so much time writing and readers spend
so much time reading??

Moby Dick: "Once upon a time there was a whale. It was a white whale.
Captain Ahab was an unhappy man. Captain Ahab was obsessed with killing the
white whale. The end." Really now, doesn't that say it all?

Ah oooooooooh, the way Shakespeare could be condensed. Look at the kudos
we'd get from high school English students around the country. Hamlet has
29,551 words! I'll bet we could knock that down to 10,000 or so and
everybody would still get the idea just fine.

I just told the dawgz that we're going to save time and they're going from 2
meals a day to 1 meal a day. Making 2 meals a day for them wastes time.
They just told me that's OK, that I'll be their second meal.

~~ Mosey ~~

xxxxxxxx wrote:
> Y'know, I think American society should consider revising more than just the
> sport of letterboxing while we're at it.



Baseball and football are not letterboxing. Letterboxing is constantly
evolving, constantly changing. It is one of the reasons I enjoy it so.

Were we to do letterboxing as it had always been done, we would still be
leaving calling cards in jars in the middle of some marsh somewhere. We
would not be communicating clues across the internet, and in fact, many
here would not even be able to get clues, as they had not tripped over
enough boxes yet to be qualified for them.

And the thing is, if you want to do it as it had been done, they you
can. Or you can go along with the changes. The choice is yours.

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

I'm in shape; round is a shape.

None of the above and I'm not suggesting anything. I corresponded to the original post for more input to the writer - who can decide how they want to proceed after reading the posts. This is why I don't usually write on the lbna. People get personal and judgmental.

Enjoy!
donutz716

SpringChick wrote:
Are you expecting that each box in the series would have a stamp from
the placer that you can stamp into your book? If no, what is the
purpose of the box? If yes, you do not feel an acknowledgement of
their effort would be appreciated?

You're suggesting that in order to ease your guilt about not leaving
a comment, you would prefer that the placer just not include a
logbook?

Deb

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, donutz716 wrote:
>
> So true, but I feel that someone has taken the time to create a
treasure to be found and my conscience says I need to acknowledge and
thank the person for taking the time to entertain me. That's just me
and I don't expect that anyone else has to do the same.
>
> As a sidebar, while looking at all the logbooks that I've found -
Pete and Wanda always log in a few words of kindness in all the boxes
that they find. I admire anyone who takes the time to do so.
>
> Enjoy!
> donutz716
>
> Suzanne Coe wrote:
> I think that is the fallacy that causes people to dislike
finding a logbook in every box of the series. Somehow we have bought
in to this myth that we must always write a nice note to the planter.
We end up spending 20 minutes sitting there at each one trying to
think of a different way to say "I liked your box." In no way is this
a requirement. As a matter of fact there is not even a requirement
that you sign your name--your stamp speaks for you.
>
> Sheba
>
> Baker wrote:
> I find that by the end of a long series that I am just stamping the
> logbook (if there are logbook in each that is), and I have run out
of
> things to say. I would much rather, as some others have posted
above,
> find a bunch of boxes and then stamp in the logbook at the final,
> where I can leave a nice meaningful comment on the series.
>
> ---------------------------------
> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with
Yahoo! FareChase.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your
story.
> Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>






---------------------------------
Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Considering I see it repeated over and over again in the letterboxing
FAQ that a letterbox contains both a stamp and a logbook and I did
not write the FAQ, rather it was around long before me or you, I
think it is safe to say, yes this is how it is done.

The fact that people have come along since then and feel it is
necessary and acceptable to change the game to suit their own ideals
and preferences does not change the fact that there is a defined way
it is done.

Personally if I found a letterbox that was intentionally planted
without a logbook, I would think the planter was lazy or just didn't
care about their creation enough to provide a complete package. I
certainly would not feel that they had done me a favor. If I didn't
want to stamp into a logbook at a letterbox, I would look for
geocaches.

When it gets to the point where letterboxing becomes bothersome or
tedious, then maybe it is time to ask yourself if perhaps you are
participating in the wrong hobby, not change the way the game is
played to make it more suitable for you.


SpringChick



--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Nathan Brown
wrote:
>
>
> Is it?
>
> I mean, as far as I am concerned, there are no rules. It maybe how
it
> is done for you, but it is not how it is done for everyone.
>
> Personally, having placed series, I find it bothersome and costly
to
> have a logbook in each box. I see no point in it if you are going
to
> get the same stamps in each one. Why would I want 14 logbooks that
are
> all the same when one will do? Further, not having a logbook
allows for
> a smaller box and if the box gets wet it will not matter. While I
make
> the boxes as watertight as possible, stuff happens that is simply
beyond
> my control. Why make more work for myself?
>
> As a finder, I do find it tedious to stamp in every box in a
series.
> The self satisfaction of knowing I was there is the only
gratification I
> really need.
>
> Point is, letterboxing is supposed to be fun. When it gets to the
point
> that something is tedious or bothersome, it is no longer fun. The
way I
> look at it, if is something that has become an exercise and I can
remove
> that something, I do. I want people to enjoy finding the boxes.
Clues
> can be frustrating, a hike can be frustrating, but the process
should
> not be frustrating.
>
> To each their own.
>
> --
> Nathan Brown
>
> AKA Cyclonic
> Penncoasters.com
>
> The Insensitivity rolls on...
>
> I'm in shape; round is a shape.
>

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Nathan Brown
wrote:
Letterboxing is constantly
> evolving, constantly changing.

Is it?

It is really only the past couple of years that I have seen this trend
toward tailoring the game to suit individual needs and disregard for
the way the game was originally established in the U.S.

This is the same span of time when so many of those who pioneered the
game here in the U.S. have quietly walked away, because the game they
so loved was no longer what they had envisioned, rather had turned into
some dumbed-down version that had lost much of the original spirit and
challenge.

This is not to say that there is anything wrong with planting
rubbermaid boxes in parking lots or sending them through the mail or
eliminating logbooks or even stamps from your boxes, but how much can
you change the game and still call it letterboxing?

When Jeremy Irish decided to use a GPS to mark box locations instead of
using clues, he didn't just say he was going to make changes to the way
letterboxing was done, rather he called it geocaching.

SpringChick

Oh............I think if you went back to the beginning of baseball, the
same as you mention going back to the very beginning of
letterboxing..........you'll find that baseball has evolved just a little.
Many baseball rule changes are still fought over and argued about.

But there's a biiiiiiiiig difference when it comes to *why* the rules are
changed. Letterboxing seems to be changing to get away from the aspect of
it being an art (because, after all, art is work), it seems to be changing
to make it as simple and stupid as possible, it seems to be changing to make
it as "convenient" as possible. Heaven forbid we ask hubby to stop long
enough to stamp in a logbook. Heaven forbid we make a hike longer than
someone's 6 year old wants to walk. Heaven forbid someone has to put more
work into a stamp than stopping at Hobby Lobby when they have a
50%-off-all-stamps sale. Heaven forbid we try to make a logbook a little
nicer than the small lined notebooks available on sale for 69 cents at the
Dollar Store.

I think another thing that needs to be taken into consideration are that the
beginnings of letterboxing in the U.K. and the beginnings of letterboxing in
the U.S. are two different things. Here in the U.S., when it began, it
didn't begin with cards, jars, and marshes. Or should we play be playing
baseball by cricket rules and football by rugby rules? Nothing is truly
original. Any sport ya look at, there's a predecessor someplace even if
only in the sense of the idea of the whole thing. So letterboxing --
letterboxing in the U.S. -- hasn't really "evolved" all that much until the
past couple of years. It's only evolved dramatically over a length of time
if one goes back to the very beginning "idea" of it in the U.K. Boxing in
the U.S. never *has* been like boxing in the U.K. in a large number of ways.

I think letterboxing may eventually end up on a slide to being two different
games. A traditional version and a dumbed down version. And the dumbing
down slide might eventually get things so dumbed down that some of the older
traditions might begin to look good again. The pendulum might begin to
swing back. The same way not all that many adults really want to play
T-Ball. Heck, probably not too many parents, aunts, or uncles even want to
*watch* T-Ball. The same way there's great literature for adults and then
there's Reader's Digest Condensed Books.

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Nathan Brown
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 1:58 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Thoughts about Letterbox series


xxxxxxxx wrote:
> Y'know, I think American society should consider revising more than just
the
> sport of letterboxing while we're at it.



Baseball and football are not letterboxing. Letterboxing is constantly
evolving, constantly changing. It is one of the reasons I enjoy it so.

Were we to do letterboxing as it had always been done, we would still be
leaving calling cards in jars in the middle of some marsh somewhere. We
would not be communicating clues across the internet, and in fact, many
here would not even be able to get clues, as they had not tripped over
enough boxes yet to be qualified for them.

And the thing is, if you want to do it as it had been done, they you
can. Or you can go along with the changes. The choice is yours.

--
Nathan Brown

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "xxxxxxxx"
wrote:
> Ah oooooooooh, the way Shakespeare could be condensed. Look at the
kudos
> we'd get from high school English students around the country.
Hamlet has
> 29,551 words! I'll bet we could knock that down to 10,000 or so and
> everybody would still get the idea just fine.

613 words short enough for you? :-p

Oor Hamlet (aka The Three-Minute Hamlet)
Words by : Adam McNaughton
Tune of : The Mason's Apron

There was a king nodding in his garden all alone,
When his brother in his ear poured a little bit of henbane,
Stole his brother's crown and his money and his widow,
But the dead king walked and got his son and said, "Now listen kiddo,
I've been killed and it's your duty to take revenge on Claudius,
Kill him quick and clean and tell the nation what a fraud he is."
The kid says, "Right I'll do it, but I'll have to play it crafty,
So that no will suspect me I'll kid on that I'm a dafty."

So for all except Horatio, and he counts him as a friend,
Hamlet, that's the kid, he kids on he's 'round the bend,
And because he's not yet willing for obligatory killing,
He tries to make his uncle think he's tuppence off a shilling.
Takes a rise out of Polonius, treats poor Ophelia vile,
Tells Rosencrantz and Guildenstern that Denmark's blooded bile,
Then a troupe of traveling actors local seven eighty four,
Arrive to do a special one-night gig in Elsinore.

Hamlet, Hamlet, acting balmy,
Hamlet, Hamlet, loves his mommy,
Hamlet, Hamlet, hesitating,
He wonders if the ghost's a fake,
And that is why he's waiting.

So Hamlet wrote a scene for the players to enact,
So Horatio and he could see if Claudius cracked,
The play was called "The Mousetrap" (not the one that's running now),
And sure enough the king walked out before the final bow.
So Hamlet's got the proof his uncle gave his dad the dose,
The only problem being now that Claudius knows he knows,
So while Hamlet tells his mother her new husband's not a fit man,
Uncle Claude takes out a contract with the English king as hit man.

Then when Hamlet killed Polonius, and the corpus was delecti,
Was the king's excuse to send him for an English hempen necktie,
With Rosencrantz and Guildenstern to make quite sure he got there,
But Hamlet jumped the boat and put the finger straight on that pair.
When Laertes heard his dad's killed in the bedroom in the arras,
He came running back to Elsinore tout-suite hot-foot from Paris.
When Ophelia heard her dad's killed by the man she was to marry,
After saying it with flowers, she committed hari-kari.

Hamlet, Hamlet, no messin'
Hamlet, Hamlet, learned his lesson
Hamlet, Hamlet, Yorick's crust
Convinced him all men good or bad,
At last must come to dust.

Then Laertes lost his cool and was demanding retribution,
The king said keep your head and I'll supply you a solution.
So the king arranged a swordfight for the interested parties,
With a blunted sword for Hamlet and a sharp sword for Laertes.
And to make double sure (the old belt-and-braces line),
He fixed up a poisoned sword-tip and a poisoned cup of wine.
The poisoned sword got Hamlet, but Laertes went and fluffed it,
Because he stabbed himself and he confessed before he snuffed it.

Then Hamlet's mommy drank the wine and as her face turned blue,
Hamlet said, "I think this king's a baddie through and through."
"Incestuous, murderous, damned Dane," he said, to be precise,
Then made up for hesitating once, by killing Claudius twice.
He stabbed him with his knife and forced the wine between his lips
He said, "The rest is silence," and he cashed in all his chips.
They fired a volley over him that shook the topmost rafter,
And Fortinbras, knee deep in Danes, lived happily ever after.

Hamlet, Hamlet, end of story
Hamlet, Hamlet, very gory
Hamlet, Hamlet, I'm on my way
And if you think that was confusing,
You should read the bloody play.

Yes! Excellent! :-) McNaughton would be a genius with letterboxes.

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of rozebud.rm
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 2:55 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Thoughts about Letterbox series

613 words short enough for you? :-p

Oor Hamlet (aka The Three-Minute Hamlet)
Words by : Adam McNaughton
Tune of : The Mason's Apron

There was a king nodding in his garden all alone,
When his brother in his ear poured a little bit of henbane,
Stole his brother's crown and his money and his widow,
But the dead king walked and got his son and said, "Now listen kiddo,
I've been killed and it's your duty to take revenge on Claudius,
Kill him quick and clean and tell the nation what a fraud he is."
The kid says, "Right I'll do it, but I'll have to play it crafty,
So that no will suspect me I'll kid on that I'm a dafty."

So for all except Horatio, and he counts him as a friend,
Hamlet, that's the kid, he kids on he's 'round the bend,
And because he's not yet willing for obligatory killing,
He tries to make his uncle think he's tuppence off a shilling.
Takes a rise out of Polonius, treats poor Ophelia vile,
Tells Rosencrantz and Guildenstern that Denmark's blooded bile,
Then a troupe of traveling actors local seven eighty four,
Arrive to do a special one-night gig in Elsinore.

Hamlet, Hamlet, acting balmy,
Hamlet, Hamlet, loves his mommy,
Hamlet, Hamlet, hesitating,
He wonders if the ghost's a fake,
And that is why he's waiting.

So Hamlet wrote a scene for the players to enact,
So Horatio and he could see if Claudius cracked,
The play was called "The Mousetrap" (not the one that's running now),
And sure enough the king walked out before the final bow.
So Hamlet's got the proof his uncle gave his dad the dose,
The only problem being now that Claudius knows he knows,
So while Hamlet tells his mother her new husband's not a fit man,
Uncle Claude takes out a contract with the English king as hit man.

Then when Hamlet killed Polonius, and the corpus was delecti,
Was the king's excuse to send him for an English hempen necktie,
With Rosencrantz and Guildenstern to make quite sure he got there,
But Hamlet jumped the boat and put the finger straight on that pair.
When Laertes heard his dad's killed in the bedroom in the arras,
He came running back to Elsinore tout-suite hot-foot from Paris.
When Ophelia heard her dad's killed by the man she was to marry,
After saying it with flowers, she committed hari-kari.

Hamlet, Hamlet, no messin'
Hamlet, Hamlet, learned his lesson
Hamlet, Hamlet, Yorick's crust
Convinced him all men good or bad,
At last must come to dust.

Then Laertes lost his cool and was demanding retribution,
The king said keep your head and I'll supply you a solution.
So the king arranged a swordfight for the interested parties,
With a blunted sword for Hamlet and a sharp sword for Laertes.
And to make double sure (the old belt-and-braces line),
He fixed up a poisoned sword-tip and a poisoned cup of wine.
The poisoned sword got Hamlet, but Laertes went and fluffed it,
Because he stabbed himself and he confessed before he snuffed it.

Then Hamlet's mommy drank the wine and as her face turned blue,
Hamlet said, "I think this king's a baddie through and through."
"Incestuous, murderous, damned Dane," he said, to be precise,
Then made up for hesitating once, by killing Claudius twice.
He stabbed him with his knife and forced the wine between his lips
He said, "The rest is silence," and he cashed in all his chips.
They fired a volley over him that shook the topmost rafter,
And Fortinbras, knee deep in Danes, lived happily ever after.

Hamlet, Hamlet, end of story
Hamlet, Hamlet, very gory
Hamlet, Hamlet, I'm on my way
And if you think that was confusing,
You should read the bloody play.

> This is the same span of time when so many of those who pioneered the
> game here in the U.S. have quietly walked away, because the game they
> so loved was no longer what they had envisioned,

Oh, were still here, hiding in our out of the way holes enjoying what
we enjoy doing, and watching some of the goings on with amusement ...
the less bothered we are, the better.

> This is not to say that there is anything wrong with planting
> rubbermaid boxes in parking lots or sending them through the mail or
> eliminating logbooks or even stamps from your boxes,

What seems even more surprising, at least to a simple-minded bumpkin
like myself, is how some people seem to get so up in arms about
these sorts of activities.

When you think about it, if you write some text and place it on a web
site, or put some tupperware container on some public land, that is,
land shared by others on a putatively equal basis, it would seem you
have very little in the way of rights to expectations as to how those
artefacts are interacted with those who encounter them. Moreover,
if one encounters such artefacts, one again has little in the rights
of expectations as to their quality or fitness for their personal
enjoyment, having presumably no warranty with their creator.

OTOH, as a player in such a community, one would think it is only
logical that treating these artefacts, creating these artefacts, etc.,
within the norms of social convention of the community one plays in,
will, in the long run, have benefits to oneself. At the very least,
it seems polite to disclose when one will be deviating from the norms
of social convention long before someone else has invested a ton of
recourses based on false assumptions, until at least, these deviations
become accepted parts of the social canon, or are lost to the dustbin
of obscurity or cultism.

JMHO -- its my attitude anyway, and my guess is that taking something
similar to this would mitigate 99% of flames, judgementalisms, and
all that noise that has driven so many underground (and to their
chagrin is still present when they surface periodically).

> When Jeremy Irish decided to use a GPS to mark box locations instead of
> using clues, he didn't just say he was going to make changes to the way
> letterboxing was done, rather he called it geocaching.

As a matter of historical record, Jeremy Irish neither invented
geocaching, nor coined the term. Dave Ulmer and Matt Strom [sp?]
deserve those credits. It is also a matter of historical record that
geocaching was invented independent of letterboxing; in fact, I'm
not convinced its creator was aware of the hobby. (geocaching was
invented within days, and in direct response to, President Clinton's
executive order to disable selective availability).

Cheers
Randy
you're unofficial tupperware-hiding-game philosopher and historian :)

Whoa! I don't think I have ever seen so many comments about a single topic, at least not in
awhile. Anyway SP,point taken but, there's always a but. I think it depends on the series.
For example I've had a series on a local trail with 13 boxes in a mile stretch, it was a X-
mas series meant to be temporary, I only put a log in the last one. I have other series with
longer hikes in between and have logs in each of these.
I also think this is a caution against speed boxing, too many boxes in a day can get
wearing. Also too many boxes too close together. There are alot of miles of trails out there
that need boxes.
>
> If you are only interested in finding boxes out in the woods without
> the stamping process, perhaps the geocaching philosophy better fits
> your goals?
>
> Just my old-school perspective, which seems to be in the minority
> these days.
>
> SpringChick
>
>

>

xxxxxxxx wrote:

> I'm sorry, but I guess I don't see your 8 steps as taking all that
> much time...

Actually, it does. You notice it when your partner in the hunt
considers this stamping stuff as a waste of time and is impatient to
get moving again.

I have been considering building a container for my sig stamp and ink
pad so you just set it down on the ground and flip it open and both
are there ready for use -- perhaps complete with a flat spot on the
lid for stamping. As it is, my ink pad is in one baggie, my stamp is
in another container, and both have to be dug out of my shoulder bag
each time.

-- Kirbert

SpringChick wrote:

> Are you expecting that each box in the series would have a stamp from
> the placer that you can stamp into your book? If no, what is the
> purpose of the box?

Well, it *could* be a way of keeping the finder on the right track.
You're right, though, if it doesn't have either a stamp or a log
book, it's rare that it would need to exist at all.

One example I could think of: You want to bring the finder to a
particular spot (a great view or some such) but there's no place to
hide anything big enough for either a log book or a stamp. So you
hide a bison tube with a tiny set of instructions inside directing
people to the next box.

> If yes, you do not feel an acknowledgement of
> their effort would be appreciated?

OK, I guess I'm not clear on that. Is the finder supposed to be
acknowledging the effort of the placer? Because if so, that can be
done at the final box. If the placer is supposed to be acknowledging
the effort of the finder, well, a stamp in each box should do that.

One nice idea for a series is a collection of stamps that work
together to form one image. Having only one log book at the end
works just fine here, although in some cases it'd be good to have
something in the *first* box to show what the completed image should
look like so finders know how to apply each piece.

There is one series I'm aware of that the three stamps form one big
alligator, all the way across the page. The three boxes are nowhere
near each other, many miles apart in different parks; one of them is
even in another county. The problem there is that you don't want to
find the middle part of that alligator last; you can find it first or
second, but not last. But the placer doesn't indicate which box
contains the middle part, and because the boxes are so spread out and
complete clues are provided for each, you might find them in any
order depending on which direction you're driving through.

-- Kirbert

At 04:44 PM 8/6/2007, you wrote:
> So you
>hide a bison tube with a tiny set of instructions inside directing
>people to the next box.
>
>-- Kirbert

OK, I'll bite,,, I looked it up on AtlasQuest glossary, and couldn't
find "bison tube". How about a little description as to what this is
for us newer folks? :-)

Gary

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"perhaps you are participating in the wrong hobby, not
change the way the game is played to make it more
suitable for you."

Yep, the way I plant my boxes is the way that is
suitable to me. No one is obligated to find them at
all. I would like to think they offer an enjoyable
experience, but they will certainly not please
everyone equally. And they certainly might not be
like boxes of yesteryear, which I have seen precious
few of, not living in Connecticut. Most everything
within reasonable driving distance is by fairly new
planters.



"a letterbox contains both a stamp and a logbook"

Okay, so the ones I put only stamps in, because I
consider them more as clues to a puzzle, you don't
have to think of as "letterboxes"....maybe CLUEboxes
or whatever. And the next time I plant such a series,
I can just log it in as one box; that makes sense,
actually. But I still think it makes for a fun
experience to find them, and then TADA, you find the
one special logbook for the "series."

Mommo







perhaps you are
> participating in the wrong hobby, not change the way
> the game is
> played to make it more suitable for you.



--- SpringChick wrote:

> Considering I see it repeated over and over again in
> the letterboxing
> FAQ that perhaps you are
> participating in the wrong hobby, not change the way
> the game is
> played to make it more suitable for you.> not write
the FAQ, rather it was around long before
> me or you, I
> think it is safe to say, yes this is how it is done.
>
> The fact that people have come along since then and
> feel it is
> necessary and acceptable to change the game to suit
> their own ideals
> and preferences does not change the fact that there
> is a defined way
> it is done.
>
> Personally if I found a letterbox that was
> intentionally planted
> without a logbook, I would think the planter was
> lazy or just didn't
> care about their creation enough to provide a
> complete package. I
> certainly would not feel that they had done me a
> favor. If I didn't
> want to stamp into a logbook at a letterbox, I would
> look for
> geocaches.
>
> When it gets to the point where letterboxing becomes
> bothersome or
> tedious, then maybe it is time to ask yourself if
>
>
>
> SpringChick
>
>
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Nathan Brown
>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Is it?
> >
> > I mean, as far as I am concerned, there are no
> rules. It maybe how
> it
> > is done for you, but it is not how it is done for
> everyone.
> >
> > Personally, having placed series, I find it
> bothersome and costly
> to
> > have a logbook in each box. I see no point in it
> if you are going
> to
> > get the same stamps in each one. Why would I want
> 14 logbooks that
> are
> > all the same when one will do? Further, not
> having a logbook
> allows for
> > a smaller box and if the box gets wet it will not
> matter. While I
> make
> > the boxes as watertight as possible, stuff happens
> that is simply
> beyond
> > my control. Why make more work for myself?
> >
> > As a finder, I do find it tedious to stamp in
> every box in a
> series.
> > The self satisfaction of knowing I was there is
> the only
> gratification I
> > really need.
> >
> > Point is, letterboxing is supposed to be fun.
> When it gets to the
> point
> > that something is tedious or bothersome, it is no
> longer fun. The
> way I
> > look at it, if is something that has become an
> exercise and I can
> remove
> > that something, I do. I want people to enjoy
> finding the boxes.
> Clues
> > can be frustrating, a hike can be frustrating, but
> the process
> should
> > not be frustrating.
> >
> > To each their own.
> >
> > --
> > Nathan Brown
> >
> > AKA Cyclonic
> > Penncoasters.com
> >
> > The Insensitivity rolls on...
> >
> > I'm in shape; round is a shape.
> >
>
>
>




____________________________________________________________________________________
Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz

At 06:00 PM 8/6/2007, you wrote:

> > OK, I'll bite,,, I looked it up on AtlasQuest glossary, and couldn't
> > find "bison tube". How about a little description as to what this is
> > for us newer folks? :-)
>
>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22bison+tube%22&btnG=Google+Search

Thanks for the link!!! :-) If my head was screwed on right, I might
have thought of running a google search... :-|



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

So what you're saying then is that it takes *you* a long time.

See? Now you're thinking about getting *yourself* better organized and
streamlined rather than dumbing down the hobby.

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Kirbert
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 4:45 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: Thoughts about Letterbox series


xxxxxxxx wrote:

> I'm sorry, but I guess I don't see your 8 steps as taking all that
> much time...

Actually, it does. You notice it when your partner in the hunt
considers this stamping stuff as a waste of time and is impatient to
get moving again.

I have been considering building a container for my sig stamp and ink
pad so you just set it down on the ground and flip it open and both
are there ready for use -- perhaps complete with a flat spot on the
lid for stamping. As it is, my ink pad is in one baggie, my stamp is
in another container, and both have to be dug out of my shoulder bag
each time.

-- Kirbert

Gary & Elizabeth Anderson wrote:

> OK, I'll bite,,, I looked it up on AtlasQuest glossary, and couldn't
> find "bison tube". How about a little description as to what this is
> for us newer folks? :-)

In geocaching, a 35mm film canister is a "micro". A bison tube is
unofficially known as a "nano".

A bison tube is one of those containers with a screw top that you put
on your key chain and use to hold one or two pills. I mean to tell
ya, they are tiny! You generally take a slip of paper about 1/2"
wide and three inches long, roll it up reeeeal tight, and jam it into
the cap and then screw the container onto it.

In general, I suspect a bison tube is useless in letterboxing; it'd
be kinda difficult to carve a stamp to fit into one. There are store-
bought stamps about the right size, though; in fact, I've planted
four of them -- but not in bison tubes but rather a rather larger
container like an Altoids tin.

-- Kirbert

I have seen stamps carved on the erasers at the end of pencils.
That would work if someone were willing to work that tiny.


On Aug 6, 2007, at 5:45 PM, Kirbert wrote:

> I suspect a bison tube is useless in letterboxing; it'd
> be kinda difficult to carve a stamp to fit into one.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> OK, I'll bite,,, I looked it up on AtlasQuest glossary, and couldn't
> find "bison tube". How about a little description as to what this is
> for us newer folks? :-)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22bison+tube%22&btnG=Google+Search

> SpringChick wrote:
>> Yes, but this is how letterboxing is done.
>>
>> As someone had suggested earlier, you can always just disregard the
>> logbook in the box if it is too botherstome for you to stamp the
>> placer's logbook in exchange for stamping their stamp into your
>> logbook.
>>
>> SpringChick
>>
>>
>
>
> Is it?

I am in complete agreement with this. There are boxes for everyone! I some
single boxes, some drive bys, some series of 4, wiht 4 logs, a series of 4
with one log, A single box with a long hike, a new larger series with 2
logs, fairly close together placements. Someone can find something they
like and dislike within my whole P count.
>
> I mean, as far as I am concerned, there are no rules. It maybe how it
> is done for you, but it is not how it is done for everyone.

same here

>
> Personally, having placed series, I find it bothersome and costly to
> have a logbook in each box. I see no point in it if you are going to
> get the same stamps in each one. Why would I want 14 logbooks that are
> all the same when one will do?
same here.

Dale End Farm

Actually you can use gps coordanates to make a letterbox. What
separtes the two sports is the stamp.

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "SpringChick"
wrote:
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Nathan Brown
> wrote:
> Letterboxing is constantly
> > evolving, constantly changing.
>
> Is it?
>
> It is really only the past couple of years that I have seen this
trend
> toward tailoring the game to suit individual needs and disregard
for
> the way the game was originally established in the U.S.
>
> This is the same span of time when so many of those who pioneered
the
> game here in the U.S. have quietly walked away, because the game
they
> so loved was no longer what they had envisioned, rather had turned
into
> some dumbed-down version that had lost much of the original spirit
and
> challenge.
>
> This is not to say that there is anything wrong with planting
> rubbermaid boxes in parking lots or sending them through the mail
or
> eliminating logbooks or even stamps from your boxes, but how much
can
> you change the game and still call it letterboxing?
>
> When Jeremy Irish decided to use a GPS to mark box locations
instead of
> using clues, he didn't just say he was going to make changes to the
way
> letterboxing was done, rather he called it geocaching.
>
> SpringChick
>

Randy, what a pleasure it is to hear from you. And as usual, you
have quite a way with words. Thanks for popping out of your hole,
even momentarily.

SandiBox


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Randy Hall wrote:
>
>
> > This is the same span of time when so many of those who pioneered
the
> > game here in the U.S. have quietly walked away, because the game
they
> > so loved was no longer what they had envisioned,
>
> Oh, were still here, hiding in our out of the way holes enjoying
what
> we enjoy doing, and watching some of the goings on with
amusement ...
> the less bothered we are, the better.
>
> > This is not to say that there is anything wrong with planting
> > rubbermaid boxes in parking lots or sending them through the mail
or
> > eliminating logbooks or even stamps from your boxes,
>
> What seems even more surprising, at least to a simple-minded bumpkin
> like myself, is how some people seem to get so up in arms about
> these sorts of activities.
>
> When you think about it, if you write some text and place it on a
web
> site, or put some tupperware container on some public land, that is,
> land shared by others on a putatively equal basis, it would seem you
> have very little in the way of rights to expectations as to how
those
> artefacts are interacted with those who encounter them. Moreover,
> if one encounters such artefacts, one again has little in the rights
> of expectations as to their quality or fitness for their personal
> enjoyment, having presumably no warranty with their creator.
>
> OTOH, as a player in such a community, one would think it is only
> logical that treating these artefacts, creating these artefacts,
etc.,
> within the norms of social convention of the community one plays in,
> will, in the long run, have benefits to oneself. At the very least,
> it seems polite to disclose when one will be deviating from the
norms
> of social convention long before someone else has invested a ton of
> recourses based on false assumptions, until at least, these
deviations
> become accepted parts of the social canon, or are lost to the
dustbin
> of obscurity or cultism.
>
> JMHO -- its my attitude anyway, and my guess is that taking
something
> similar to this would mitigate 99% of flames, judgementalisms, and
> all that noise that has driven so many underground (and to their
> chagrin is still present when they surface periodically).
>
> > When Jeremy Irish decided to use a GPS to mark box locations
instead of
> > using clues, he didn't just say he was going to make changes to
the way
> > letterboxing was done, rather he called it geocaching.
>
> As a matter of historical record, Jeremy Irish neither invented
> geocaching, nor coined the term. Dave Ulmer and Matt Strom [sp?]
> deserve those credits. It is also a matter of historical record
that
> geocaching was invented independent of letterboxing; in fact, I'm
> not convinced its creator was aware of the hobby. (geocaching was
> invented within days, and in direct response to, President Clinton's
> executive order to disable selective availability).
>
> Cheers
> Randy
> you're unofficial tupperware-hiding-game philosopher and
historian :)
>

Baker wrote:

Actually you can use gps coordanates to make a letterbox. What
separtes the two sports is the stamp.


********************************

LOL...Okay, I have to jump in on that one -

Yes, I guess you're right. The only thing that "technically" separates the
two IS the stamp. But oh my goodness - that's like saying the only thing
that separates Mexico from the United States is the border.

Within that one fine line is a world of difference...and if that isn't true,
why do we spend so much time talking about whether to carve, buy, or
commission? Or how to find designs? Or how to transfer to rubber? Or
heck, what stinking rubber to use?

Sorry - it just hit me funny I guess. So much truth in one small statement
that it almost seems implausible.


--
Barefoot Lucy
"It's not about footwear, it's about philosophy"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just jumping in here - so don't know if it's been said in later emails, but that is such a great idea to put one in the first and then the last! That's good for families with smaller kids who maybe don't want to do the more challenging loops of trails! Kind of appeals to everyone! Love it!

zess devine wrote: Hi Baker,

Absolutely!! I agree with you 100%. I'm finding more and more around here
(Central MA) that this is how series are being done--just one logbook in the
last box. There are lots of them around here. The first series we planted
had 4 boxes, with logbooks in all 4 boxes. After finding a few series that
had logbooks in each box I realized that it was actually kinda annoying, so
I pulled the middle two logbooks out of the boxes. We now have one logbook
in the first and last box. That's kinda nice if the finder can't locate the
final box. That happened to me once...with a Merry Pranksters box...but they
were kind enough to give me enough of a hint that I found it the next time
out. I was SO BUMMED not to find the last box that first time, b/c I had
lots of comments I wanted to make (it is a cool series; Jigsaw Puzzle).
However, despite my frustration that day, I still believe strongly that
logbooks don't need to be in every box. Even as a planter, when I went back
to that series I found that I had four logbooks with all the same stamps in
them...in the same order. I really only need one.

So...I say GO FOR IT!!

~zess~

On 8/5/07, Baker wrote:
>
> I have been finding some interesting letterbox series plants, where
> the letterboxes lead you down a path and are planted at stratigic
> locactions. It is a nice way to make a long hike more interesting and
> fun for the boxer. One thing though that I find gets old is signing
> the logbook at each box. Geocachers use muti caches in the same way,
> but put the log book at the final cache.
>
> I have been thinking about taking two boxes, adding two more and make
> a nice series out of them that would take a longer hike and make it a
> little more fun, especally those who have childern. However, I was
> thinking of planting smaller boxes, with clues and a stamp, but no
> logbook, saving the logbook for the last box. For some reason that
> makes more sense to me. I remember finding a series that have 13
> beatiful stamps, but they were spaced about 400 feet aprat (or less)
> and by the time I hit the last box I just stamped it, no comment.
>
> How do you guys feel about leaving the logbook for the last in a
> sseries as long as a stamp was included with each clue box.
>
> I am cuious about this and if you have run into something like that.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Baker
> http://bakersoutdoors.blogspot.com/
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Actually, around here (Upstate NY) I've found a few that had very brief clues to bonus boxes written inside the cover of the logbook of the published box. Sort creating a small series. It's always great to find a bonus! The bonus is not listed on either LbNA or atlasquest, so you really need to pay careful attention. It's fun to note those who missed the bonus by not taking the time to look through the notes and stamps. That is so much part of the fun for me - reading what others have said! Also, I would have missed box 3 of a series of 5 that we went after. Box 3 was missing from its original spot, but the boxers two or three before us noted that they found it scattered and broken so put it in a safe place until someone with adequate first aid supplies happened on the scene.

Kirbert wrote: ruhlette wrote:

> So I guess I have to ask myself, "if each box in a series
> does not warrant a logbook, is it necessary to plant each one?"

Hmmm. I haven't planted a series; now that I think about it, this is
probably a large reason why. I have been thinking about a series or
two, usually because there are two or more points of interest within
the same park or the like, but even in those cases I'm more likely to
create two separate letterboxes.

It's not the length of the hike. I've got a couple out there that
involve a hike of a couple of miles or more. I don't feel the need
to plant intermediate boxes just to keep the interest up or whatever.

One of the reasons I'd been thinking of planting a series is because
I really want to bring people to a very particular spot, but there's
nowhere there to plant a container large enough for a stamp and log
book. So my plan was to plant just a stamp with some instructions
for finding a second box, somewhere nearby where a larger container
can be hidden. I had that one pretty well worked out when I came up
with a way to hide a log book at the first site, so the series idea
went away.

-- Kirbert





---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

LeslieCefali wrote:

> I have seen stamps carved on the erasers at the end of pencils.
> That would work if someone were willing to work that tiny.

I've done it, but not well. I didn't actually use a pencil because
the rubber is crumbly. Instead, I used a vinyl eraser stick
(intended for use in an electric eraser used in drafting) mounted in
a holder intended to hold one. It's one of those things made like a
boxcutter so you can slide the eraser in and out. A nice long chunk
of rubber, probably two inches long, gives it plenty of squish when
stamping.

The problem is, even though you can get a really small stamp and a
really small bit of paper inside a bison tube, how are you going to
expect finders to stamp in? Do you expect every finder to fab up a
tiny pencil-eraser-sized sig stamp for the occasion? Because one
stamping of your average sig stamp would fill all the paper that'd
fit in a bison tube.

-- Kirbert

On Aug 6, 2007, at 8:53 PM, Kirbert wrote:

> Do you expect every finder to fab up a
> tiny pencil-eraser-sized sig stamp for the occasion? Because one
> stamping of your average sig stamp would fill all the paper that'd
> fit in a bison tube.


oh, I know it would be difficult to stamp the "logbook"... but it
would sure be fun to find a micro stamp in the bison tube none the less.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You could stamp the images on cardstock & reassemble them later. That way it wouldn't matter what order you found them in.

Sheba

Kirbert wrote:
There is one series I'm aware of that the three stamps form one big
alligator, all the way across the page. The three boxes are nowhere
near each other, many miles apart in different parks; one of them is
even in another county. The problem there is that you don't want to
find the middle part of that alligator last; you can find it first or
second, but not last. But the placer doesn't indicate which box
contains the middle part, and because the boxes are so spread out and
complete clues are provided for each, you might find them in any
order depending on which direction you're driving through.



---------------------------------
Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gail Metzger wrote:

> Actually, around here (Upstate NY) I've found a few that had very
> brief clues to bonus boxes written inside the cover of the logbook of
> the published box. Sort creating a small series. It's always great
> to find a bonus! The bonus is not listed on either LbNA or atlasquest,
> so you really need to pay careful attention.

Actually, sometimes they are. They'll get listed as "mystery" boxes
on AQ, with no clues listed, just a note that it's there so finders
can log a bonus box. The reason for listing is so finders can get
credit in their find totals.

> It's fun to note those
> who missed the bonus by not taking the time to look through the notes
> and stamps.

Oh, yeah! Sometimes you just flip to the first empty page and stamp
in, perhaps looking at the first page to see the placer and the
original stamp image. If it's raining or hot or buggy we may not
flip through all the pages and may miss the mention of a bonus box.

-- Kirbert

Well, Pete & Wanda--they're exceptional. =)
(And I always enjoy their notes too.)

Sheba

donutz716 wrote:

As a sidebar, while looking at all the logbooks that I've found - Pete and Wanda always log in a few words of kindness in all the boxes that they find. I admire anyone who takes the time to do so.



---------------------------------
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kirbert wrote:
>
> In general, I suspect a bison tube is useless in letterboxing; it'd
> be kinda difficult to carve a stamp to fit into one. There are store-
> bought stamps about the right size, though; in fact, I've planted
> four of them -- but not in bison tubes but rather a rather larger
> container like an Altoids tin.
>
> -- Kirbert
>


That just sounds like a challenge to me.

Hmmmm...

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

I'm in shape; round is a shape.

very good point spring chic.


To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.comFrom: letterbox@comcast.netDate: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 11:13:36 +0000Subject: [LbNA] Re: Thoughts about Letterbox series




--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Baker" wrote:>> I have been finding some interesting letterbox series plants, where > the letterboxes lead you down a path and are planted at stratigic > locactions. It is a nice way to make a long hike more interesting and > fun for the boxer. One thing though that I find gets old is signing > the logbook at each box. Geocachers use muti caches in the same way, > but put the log book at the final cache.So would it be acceptable also then if the planter only put a stamp inthe final box? I'm sure carving all those stamps is tedious to somepeople.While I know that the practice of putting the logbook only in the lastbox is becoming more common to "save time" and make it "lessbothersome" for the finder to have to stamp into each box along theway, I can't help thinking that this is simply another effort toshort-shift the letterboxing experience. After all, finding aletterbox, even if it is just one in a series, involves the stampingprocess -- and it is a two-way process which includes stamping the boxstamp into your log and stamping your stamp into the box log. This isa fundamental part of letterboxing.If you are only interested in finding boxes out in the woods withoutthe stamping process, perhaps the geocaching philosophy better fitsyour goals?Just my old-school perspective, which seems to be in the minoritythese days.SpringChick


_________________________________________________________________
Messenger Caf open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. Visit now.
http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_AugWLtagline

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

interesting viewpoint. letterboxing is what you make it isn't it? from choosing only hikes or only drive-by's or sharing a group journal/stamp or each individual having a stamp. why not let everyone do what they want how they want?


To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.comFrom: rockhoppinmama@suddenlink.netDate: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 08:52:12 -0400Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: Thoughts about Letterbox series




Couldn't this problem be solved if you just didn't sign every log even if itis there? If you are doing a series and would prefer there not be a log ineach box just don't stamp the log until you get to the end. You can write inthat log that you found all the boxes and chose to only sign the last log.That gives the ones who want a log in each box the chance to stamp in ateach and the ones who don't can just wait until the end.TammyRock Hoppin' Mama


_________________________________________________________________
Recharge--play some free games. Win cool prizes too!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Agreed. The notes are usually witty as well.

LB


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Suzanne Coe wrote:
>
> Well, Pete & Wanda--they're exceptional. =)
> (And I always enjoy their notes too.)
>
> Sheba
>
> donutz716 wrote:
>
> As a sidebar, while looking at all the logbooks that I've found -
Pete and Wanda always log in a few words of kindness in all the boxes
that they find. I admire anyone who takes the time to do so.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your
story.
> Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Earlier in this thread somebody had mentioned using letterboxes as
clues, in other words a series of boxes along the path to a letterbox
that would work together to provide clues to the letterbox. I call
them boxes only because I'm not sure what else you would call them --
they may or may not have a logbook, they may or may not have a stamp,
you may or may not count them as a *find* (I don't count so it is
irrelevant to me). The key is that it is something you've
intentionally placed to guide the finder to the letterbox at the end
of the trail. Kind of like breadcrumbs...

I know this is not a new idea and it has no doubt been executed in one
form or another by many letterboxers, but in light of the conversation
at hand, it has made me consider some very interesting implementations
of this idea.

While I still maintain that a "letterbox" technically must contain a
stamp and a logbook (just my opinion -- you have yours, I am entitled
to mine, which by the way, does not make me an elitist), I can see
where there could be many creative possibilities for implementing a
series of stamp-based clues, leading to a full-blown letterbox at the
end of the trail.

Randy, I stand corrected on the Jeremy Irish/geocaching history thing.
As always, it was good to hear from you -- your insight and
philosophy are a welcome read.

SpringChick

Wood Thrush in our neck of the woods also includes a
charming note, even for the most unexceptional box you
could imagine...and in beautiful, tiny handwriting,
too!

Mommo


--- Lightnin Bug wrote:

> Agreed. The notes are usually witty as well.
>
> LB
>
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Suzanne Coe
> wrote:
> >
> > Well, Pete & Wanda--they're exceptional. =)
> > (And I always enjoy their notes too.)
> >
> > Sheba
> >
> > donutz716 wrote:
> >
> > As a sidebar, while looking at all the logbooks
> that I've found -
> Pete and Wanda always log in a few words of kindness
> in all the boxes
> that they find. I admire anyone who takes the time
> to do so.
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! -
> their life, your
> story.
> > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> >
>
>
>




____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469

>>>I have been considering building a container for my sig stamp and ink
>>>pad so you just set it down on the ground and flip it open and both
>>>are there ready for use...
>>>-- Kirbert


An Altoids tin and a rubber band work fabulously and fit into a pocket. I
keep my sig stamp in an Altoids tin (it protects it well!), carry a favorite
stamp pad, and keep them rubber-banded together in a pocket (to keep the ink pad
from opening in said pocket). The tin, I believe, would be big enough to
provide a surface to lay an index card on for stamping-in, as well, for most
stamps.

Peace, Love, and Letterboxing...
Three Hearts
_www.CFLLetterboxing.com_ (http://www.cflletterboxing.com/)




************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SpringChick wrote:

> Earlier in this thread somebody had mentioned using letterboxes as
> clues, in other words a series of boxes along the path to a letterbox
> that would work together to provide clues to the letterbox. I call
> them boxes only because I'm not sure what else you would call them --
> they may or may not have a logbook, they may or may not have a stamp,
> you may or may not count them as a *find* (I don't count so it is
> irrelevant to me). The key is that it is something you've
> intentionally placed to guide the finder to the letterbox at the end
> of the trail. Kind of like breadcrumbs...

I think we have a name! :-)

> I know this is not a new idea and it has no doubt been executed in one
> form or another by many letterboxers, but in light of the conversation
> at hand, it has made me consider some very interesting implementations
> of this idea.

If you ever get into geocaching, you'll see a zillion applications of
this idea. Of course, the vast majority just have a set of
coordinates in each "breadcrumb", just telling you where the next
breadcrumb is. But some are very clever indeed.

Some are nice enough to provide a stack of little slips of paper with
the coordinates to the next hide so you can just take one. That, of
course, is very convenient, saves having to jot the info down and
eliminates the possibility of typos. But you can print coordinates
on a very tiny bit of paper. Stocking a letterboxing breadcrumb with
30 or so slips of paper with an adequate description of how to get to
the next hide would probably defeat the intention of using a bison
tube or something similarly tiny.

> While I still maintain that a "letterbox" technically must contain a
> stamp and a logbook (just my opinion -- you have yours, I am entitled
> to mine, which by the way, does not make me an elitist)

Of course it does! Whenever a person says "The way I'm doing
it is proper, the way the rest of you are doing it is all wrong,"
that makes him an elitist. Wear the mantle proudly!

> I can see
> where there could be many creative possibilities for implementing a
> series of stamp-based clues, leading to a full-blown letterbox at the
> end of the trail.

Ooooh! The stamp itself is the clue to the next hide! Yeah, that'd
work! Especially if the posted clues to the first hide takes
you past all the successive hides, so with each stamp you recognize
the location as a place you've already been!

-- Kirbert

Paige Mark wrote:

> "I have been considering building a container for my
> sig stamp and ink
> pad so you just set it down on the ground and flip it
> open and both
> are there ready for use -- perhaps complete with a
> flat spot on the
> lid for stamping."
>
> I do this, Kirbert and it really makes a difference!
> I purchased a Lock & Lock in a larger/longer size that
> would accomodate the markers, stamp pads and stamps
> that I choose to carry (even has extra room for a
> baggie with a wet paper towel for clean-ups). My sig
> stamp is in a hand-made felt pouch that is easy to
> slip the stamp in and out of.

Too much time! I think I'd use Velcro on the top of the sig stamp to
hold it to the lid, and a layer of felt in the bottom for it to land
on.

Same kinda thing with the ink pad used for the sig. Attach the lid
to the lid of the box, mount the pad itself in the base.

Might even go farther than that and mount the sig stamp in the lid of
the ink pad so it just sits on the ink when closed up. Does anyone
know if there's a reason not to do that?

-- Kirbert

<< Might even go farther than that and mount the sig stamp in the lid of
the ink pad so it just sits on the ink when closed up. Does anyone
know if there's a reason not to do that? >>

Why don't you try it with all your boxes and then report back to the list a few years from now and let us know how it worked out for you?

dave








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Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Or blank self-adhesive labels - you could stamp them 'in the field" and later cut them to size and stick them in your book. We made that mistake while finding Mookie's Art & Architecture. Luckily, the Mookster minimized the damage by placing the first and last stamps in the first box! Way cool. That way, when we found the second, we knew we had a composite image underway and only have one hole in our log book (where we stamped the eighth stamp two pages after the first before we figured it out!) We learned not to be so 'organized' from that one!

Suzanne Coe wrote: You could stamp the images on cardstock & reassemble them later. That way it wouldn't matter what order you found them in.

Sheba

Kirbert wrote:
There is one series I'm aware of that the three stamps form one big
alligator, all the way across the page. The three boxes are nowhere
near each other, many miles apart in different parks; one of them is
even in another county. The problem there is that you don't want to
find the middle part of that alligator last; you can find it first or
second, but not last. But the placer doesn't indicate which box
contains the middle part, and because the boxes are so spread out and
complete clues are provided for each, you might find them in any
order depending on which direction you're driving through.

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I am glad that there was a lively discussion here it reminds me of my
favorite quote

"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
progress"-Joseph Joubert

That one is for the philosophers that live here :-)

I am glad to hear from all sides and I would like to thank everyone
for stating your position to better help me understand what I want to
do.

Thank You
Baker




--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Barefoot Lucy"
wrote:
>
> Baker wrote:
>
> Actually you can use gps coordanates to make a letterbox. What
> separtes the two sports is the stamp.
>
>
> ********************************
>
> LOL...Okay, I have to jump in on that one -
>
> Yes, I guess you're right. The only thing that "technically"
separates the
> two IS the stamp. But oh my goodness - that's like saying the only
thing
> that separates Mexico from the United States is the border.
>
> Within that one fine line is a world of difference...and if that
isn't true,
> why do we spend so much time talking about whether to carve, buy, or
> commission? Or how to find designs? Or how to transfer to
rubber? Or
> heck, what stinking rubber to use?
>
> Sorry - it just hit me funny I guess. So much truth in one small
statement
> that it almost seems implausible.
>
>
> --
> Barefoot Lucy
> "It's not about footwear, it's about philosophy"
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hm. As long as you could close it tightly enough that the ink didn't dry out, and were able to remove the stamp without completely covering yourself with ink....hm....

Sheba

Kirbert wrote:

Might even go farther than that and mount the sig stamp in the lid of
the ink pad so it just sits on the ink when closed up. Does anyone
know if there's a reason not to do that?



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